Post by magnum on Nov 20, 2019 10:09:40 GMT
Always see so many recommendations for 30-30 as the best for thick brush and shots under 100 yards just because it's what they always used or what their family used. Yes it works most of the time but 30-30 is not a great "brush " cartridge. Lever action rifles with 16 to 20 inch barrels are good brush guns due to the relatively short length and light wheight, but that blunt nosed 180 grain bullet coming out of a 30-30 case is no better at "deflecting grass, twigs, and branches" than a pointed 150 to 180 grain bullet from a 30-06 or 308 that by the way will most likely shoot a tighter grouping and will also have higher velocity.
Everyone thinks that since grandpapy carried one through the thick woods it's the best caliber for the job it's not. The lever action rifle is good for that task but 30/30 was probably cheaper that 45/70 and other calibers and didnt kick as bad either. 30-30 wasnt chosen because it was the best. One reason They picked lever action over bolt actions was faster repeat shots. Any thing a 30-30 lever action can do a lever action, pump, or relaible semi auto 308 or 30- 06 can do with a faster bullet and more accurately with the 308 having just as little recoil as the 3030. But similar to the 30-30 the 308 and 30-06 with 150 to 200 grain bullets are not optimal for shooting through brush either
If you want a compact "thick brush gun" 444marlin, 45/ 70, 405 Winchester, 20 gauge slug gun, 12 gauge slug gun, or 12 gauge 00 or 000 buck shot (at close enough ranges even though buck shot is relatively light weight per pellet its doubtful all the pellets will hit debris).
Are all far better suited to shooting in brush and not changing course than a 30-30. Since the lever action was and is often chosen due to faster follow up shots at close running deer and hogs than a bolt action I'd argue the best " thick brush gun" today would be either a semi auto rifled barrel 20 or 12 gauge slug gun or an ar 15 in 450 bushmaster or 458 socom with a 5 or 10 round magazine depending on local laws. Many lever actions hold more than 5 plus 1 so having a 10 round magazine is reasonable if legal. You dont have to load 10 even going after a huge group of hogs you probably wont come close to 10 shots before they are gone. You could only load 6 7 or 8 and safe a ittle wheight if you chose.
But the lever action 444 marlin, 45/70, 405 Winchester would still be better for the job that 30-30
Check out the energy and velocity of 450 and 458 from 18 inch barrels then compare to regular factory 45-70 and 44 magnums ( not the over pressured super high velocity only safe in a couple modern brands loads) with similar bullet wheight and also 18 barrels and see just how much power is in that relatively short 450 or 458 case.
Dont take this the wrong way 30-30 has been estimated to have killed more deer than any other caliber in the USA and I'veseen people mention using a 3030 on polar bear and Grizzlies effectively with pictures to prove it. I dont hate the 30-30 but it's just something to think about. People brag about their success not many people discussing all the times they used a 30-30 and missed or never found the animal after finding blood.
Just because a 3030 is a common brush gun that doesnt mean it's the best. I'm sure people will comment that they have killed dozens or hundreds with a 30-30 in brush but due to velocity and the mass off the bullets you would gotten the exact same result holding a browning blr lever action,savage 99 lever action , or Remington 7600 pump in 308 using same brand and same wheight bullet.
Everyone thinks that since grandpapy carried one through the thick woods it's the best caliber for the job it's not. The lever action rifle is good for that task but 30/30 was probably cheaper that 45/70 and other calibers and didnt kick as bad either. 30-30 wasnt chosen because it was the best. One reason They picked lever action over bolt actions was faster repeat shots. Any thing a 30-30 lever action can do a lever action, pump, or relaible semi auto 308 or 30- 06 can do with a faster bullet and more accurately with the 308 having just as little recoil as the 3030. But similar to the 30-30 the 308 and 30-06 with 150 to 200 grain bullets are not optimal for shooting through brush either
If you want a compact "thick brush gun" 444marlin, 45/ 70, 405 Winchester, 20 gauge slug gun, 12 gauge slug gun, or 12 gauge 00 or 000 buck shot (at close enough ranges even though buck shot is relatively light weight per pellet its doubtful all the pellets will hit debris).
Are all far better suited to shooting in brush and not changing course than a 30-30. Since the lever action was and is often chosen due to faster follow up shots at close running deer and hogs than a bolt action I'd argue the best " thick brush gun" today would be either a semi auto rifled barrel 20 or 12 gauge slug gun or an ar 15 in 450 bushmaster or 458 socom with a 5 or 10 round magazine depending on local laws. Many lever actions hold more than 5 plus 1 so having a 10 round magazine is reasonable if legal. You dont have to load 10 even going after a huge group of hogs you probably wont come close to 10 shots before they are gone. You could only load 6 7 or 8 and safe a ittle wheight if you chose.
But the lever action 444 marlin, 45/70, 405 Winchester would still be better for the job that 30-30
Check out the energy and velocity of 450 and 458 from 18 inch barrels then compare to regular factory 45-70 and 44 magnums ( not the over pressured super high velocity only safe in a couple modern brands loads) with similar bullet wheight and also 18 barrels and see just how much power is in that relatively short 450 or 458 case.
Dont take this the wrong way 30-30 has been estimated to have killed more deer than any other caliber in the USA and I'veseen people mention using a 3030 on polar bear and Grizzlies effectively with pictures to prove it. I dont hate the 30-30 but it's just something to think about. People brag about their success not many people discussing all the times they used a 30-30 and missed or never found the animal after finding blood.
Just because a 3030 is a common brush gun that doesnt mean it's the best. I'm sure people will comment that they have killed dozens or hundreds with a 30-30 in brush but due to velocity and the mass off the bullets you would gotten the exact same result holding a browning blr lever action,savage 99 lever action , or Remington 7600 pump in 308 using same brand and same wheight bullet.
If your 3030 bullet hit a twig and didnt deflect then 308, 30- 06, 444 marlin , 45-70, 450 bushmaster, wouldnt have deflected either. Think about the times you missed and what you were shooting through and consider that MAYBE a larger heavier faster bullet may have stayed straight and hit the target.
